Too bad Chad Farnan's eighth grade teacher failed to teach him facts, but that is hardly Mr. Corbett's fault. Yes, some persecuted Christians did come to America and set up colonies where they systematically went about persecuting those who believed differently then they did. But many other people also came to America. Explorers and those who hoped to get rich in America came. Prisoners were sent to America (against their will in some instances). America was founded by people of many different backgrounds and beliefs. The Founding Father's seeing what a mess RELIGION had created in Europe wisely decided to separate church and state in America; so everyone would be free to worship as they choose (including the right to NOT worship anyone/anything at all). Considering James Corbett teaches Advanced Placement European history it's hardly surprising that his students would be expected to know that America wasn't founded on Christian values. In fact all the Founding Father's were not Christians.
From Religion and the Founding Fathers
I have examined all the known superstitions of the Word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world ...
The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind ... to filch wealth and power to themselves. [They], in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.Thomas Jefferson
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.
Thomas Paine
There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness.
George Washington, address to Congress, 8 January, 1790
From the comments of James Corbett's other students it's apparent that they at least understand the place debate and discussion of current events have in a AP History Class, and that the Christian point of view isn't the only point of view that matters.
6. I took AP European History with Dr. Corbett several years ago. An AP course is supposed to be equivalent to a college class, where it is typical for the professor to challenge the student's critical thinking abilities. Often high school students are not mature enough for Dr. Corbett's class, and many of them blame his "bias" instead of their incompetence. Dr. Corbett was one of the best teachers I had in high school, and best prepared me for the challenge of college(both in my thought process, as well as my academic ability). If you want to take a class where you regurgitate conventional nonsense, then take regular history.
Submitted by: dan
6:24 PM PST, December 13, 2007
8. I along with 2/3 of his class passed the test last year and his class, which is much higher than the state average, in part I believe because these discussions made History more interesting. Dr. Corbett is an amazing teacher, who has helped me a great deal in preparation for college and in my future endeavors as a student.
Submitted by: dave part 2
6:07 PM PST, December 13, 2007
9. I am currently a junior at Capistrano Valley. Last year as a sophomore I was enrolled in Dr. Corbett's AP European History class, which was one of the best experiences I have had in my life. These political "rants" Chad is describing are nothing more than thought provoking discussions where the class is invited to talk about current events, not just Christian beliefs. Many people just assume that it takes away from European History and that Corbett is distracting kids away from the ultimate goal of passing the AP exam and his class, while in fact it’s the opposite.
Submitted by: dave part 1
6:07 PM PST, December 13, 2007
12. I had Dr. Corbett as my history teacher several years ago at Capo Valley. I can honestly say that he was the best teacher I have ever had. He talked about current events every morning in class, explained his opinion and encouraged debate with some students. I learned far more about world history and how it shapes the society we live in today in Corbett's class than in any other class I've taken (including college) and it would be a tremendous disservice to the students if he were removed and replaced with another substandard teacher that simply reads the textbook verbatim.
Submitted by: Dan
5:52 PM PST, December 13, 2007
HT O'Donnell Web
16 comments:
Poor kid's going to be really in for it once he has to take a science class - or has he?
You mean God didn't create the earth?????
(gasp)
I would think that he would have had a least one biology class. Although often in the public schools (at least in the South) evolution is skipped over/rushed through, whatever it takes to avoid controversy and angry parents. Then they wonder why so few kids are interested in Science. Because they were never taught real science and what they were taught makes little sense without the proper foundation.
My parents are both products of the public schools. Neither believes in evolution and my Mother's understanding of the simplest scientific principals leaves a LOT to be desired.
That quote by Jefferson says it all!
Those Pilgrim Fathers were not persecuted Christians, even though they relished that image. They were in fact militant Christians who had wanted to persecute other people but had been rebuffed. They were very much from the school of “You must live the way we say” and in a nation that had only recently thrown off domination by Rome, such a movement was unwelcome and unsuccessful. The Puritans in effect were a Christian Taleban who wanted to impose their own miserable, joyless beliefs on others, and when it became clear that England would not be governed according to the way they wanted, they left in a huff! No doubt everyone was glad to see them gone. Persecuted, no. Ill tempered, miserable, joyless and intolerant, yes.
i dont think it matters what the kid believed. this teacher still broke the law by discriminating against a religious group. if you read through the transcripts he also attacks muslims, mormons and republicans which is totally uncalled for in a public school.if this kid were gay the teacher would be out in a second! we need to be fair and allow people rights.
Vanessa, what transcript??? As far as I know there is no transcript, and the teacher didn't bash anyone. Nobody infringed on the students 'rights'. And if you read the comments by the other students they were all very supportive of the teacher.
Nicholas, I coldn't have said it better myself.
Vanessa probably means the imaginary transcript that world net daily either has, or will, publish soon, complete with their spin on how the world is anti Christian. Vanessa brought up "gay" which is fundy code for "they're all out to get us". If the kid were gay, he wouldn't have cared about the anti religious sentiment of the teacher, and probably would have applauded him. Doh.
Thanks for explaining Doc. I knew I hadn't seen a transcript anywhere.
And yet, if you choose to look read the press coverage, lo and behold, there are transcripts.
I just don't get how teaching either evolution or European history requires telling students "When you put on your Jesus glasses, you can't see the truth." That's condescending and mean-spirited, not educational -- though I suppose some folks revel in that kind of "discussion."
It drives me nuts that my fellow evolution-based, non-theocratic, liberal homeschoolers are so dang nasty and intolerant. Vent away, but know that you are merely confirming many people's belief that liberal "reasoning" is as emotional and fact-free as anything you hear from O'Reilly or Hannity.
p.s. Nicholas, James I wanted to rule by divine right, claiming that the king had absolute power that he derived from God. He did indeed harass the Puritans mercilessly for not accepting this (and to a lesser extent, Catholics) and it would be false to suggest that James I was trying to make the country more open, religiously or politically.
Shaun, I suppose you mean this (which I didn't see the first time I read the article). But there is NOTHING in here that warrants the teacher being sued.
Classroom commentary
A lawsuit against Capistrano Valley High School teacher James Corbett includes transcripts of nine comments he is alleged to have made during Advanced Placement European History class on Oct. 19. Here are excerpts from the court papers:
"The Boy Scouts can't have it both ways. If they want to be an exclusive, Christian organization or an exclusive, God-fearing organization, then they can't receive any more support from the state, and shouldn't."
He is right. You can't exclude one group of citizens from your group and still expect to receive government be it federal or state support.
"In the industrialized world the people least likely to go to church are the Swedes. The people in the industrialized world most likely to go to church are the Americans. America has the highest crime rate of all industrialized nations, and Sweden has the lowest. The next time somebody tells you religion is connected with morality, you might want to ask them about that."
It looks like he was presenting facts and asking his students to use critical thinking skills. Just because you don't like the facts doesn't mean he was bashing Christians. And there may be other reasons for the low crime rate in Sweden. Are their laws harsher? Are there more things criminalized in America (like drug use) that isn't in Sweden? Those would be questions to bring up in response to his statement. Not hit him with a law suit.
"Well, we know abstinence doesn't work. And we know one other thing, and that is, once people become sexually active, they often don't stop for, like, 40 or 50 years. I mean, generally, when you start you don't, like, have a conversion and try to become re-virginized, you know. It's not going to happen."
He is right again. It has been proven numerous times that abstinence only policies do not work. We need to teach kids who choose to engage in sex how to protect themselves. While letting those who choose not to engage in premarital sex know that it's OK, and that it's the Smart thing to do.
Non of these remarks could be construed as bashing someone.
BTW you are right about James I believing that he ruled by divine right and persecuting anyone who differed with him. But the PURITANS under Oliver Cromwell did their own persecuting. Organized Religion has been responsible for most of the pain & misery in the world The Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials and on an on..........
I'm not a fan of lawsuits, but I'd fully support the school administration giving the teacher a warning that cracks about "Jesus glasses" will no longer be tolerated. From what I can tell, the administration ignored the concerns of the parents, so while I think a lawsuit is not really merited, the school was not willing to hear them otherwise.
What sucks is that I am in agreement -- well, agreement is the wrong word, that sounds too much like discussing opinions -- I recognize the facts that the teacher puts forth about "abstinence education" and what the law says about the Boy Scouts. (If we had boys, we would not have Boy Scouts.) At the same time, I have to wonder about how that stuff relates to European History, especially all in the same class period. It does sound a bit like someone with an axe to grind, regardless of whether I'd agree with him.
The hostility from cracks like "Jesus glasses" is totally unwarranted, no matter how great the teacher is otherwise. How is that *not* bashing Christians? [Reminds me of my high school history teacher who routinely got away with cracks about women and Mormons.] And sweeping statements about what "Christians" or even "conservatives" do or believe is not a solid model of critical thinking or logical argumentation. Give it a pass on blogs that are mainly preaching to the choir, sure, from a person in authority in front of a classroom, it's crap, educationally and ethically.
If you actually talk to students in the class, they say that the "Jesus glasses" quote was not directed at them as students. It was a general "you" meaning society and relates to the peasantry of Europe.
The problem is many of these quotes are just that, quotes-little excerpts without context and explanation. Anyone can pick and choose anything and put their own spin on it. Dr. Corbett never discriminated against people and was a fine teacher that inspired his students, which is why many of them, myself included, have so quickly rushed to his defense. And that includes Christians, Mormons, Jews, Muslims, and Atheists.
jewcyney made a good point that without knowing what context the "Jesus Glasses" statement was made in we can't judge it.
If he was trying to explain that the Pope and Kings got together and decided the answer to the overpopulation problem in Europe was a Crusade, where many people would die. And that the peasantry being simple superstitious folk who saw everything through "Jesus Glasses" were lead to the slaughter by the Pope telling them the Crusades were God's will. Then there is nothing wrong with the statement.
I think it speaks well of him that so many of his former students are rushing to his defense.
Shaun, obviously you are capable of understanding that people hold points of view other then your own, and that just because their opinion is different then yours it doesn't mean they are attacking you. What if the student isn't capable of understanding that?
From what the students said in the comments I gather that they discussed current events. So yes, I can see how his comments could tie into current events which could be a jumping off point to how things are the same/different in Europe and why.
For example in Europe birth control is easily obtained and they have fewer unwanted pregnancies. Many of my European friends consider the US abstinence only policy a joke.
The actual quote in question is states as the following in the lawsuit:
"How do you get the peasants to oppose something that is in their best interest? Religion. You have to have something that is irrational to counter the rational approach...[W]hen you put on your Jesus glasses, you can't see the truth."
Considering this was the context the "Jesus Glasses" was used
"How do you get the peasants to oppose something that is in their best interest? Religion. You have to have something that is irrational to counter the rational approach...[W]hen you put on your Jesus glasses, you can't see the truth."
I think it was a legitimate remark and in no way bashed the Christians in his classroom.
Thanks, jewcyney
Sorry, I think "Jesus glasses" registers as contemptuous no matter the context. I'm in a mixed marriage -- my husband is the atheist, I'm the Catholic -- and I promise you any "Jesus glasses" crack from him would have one of us on the sofa for a night!
Saying that authorities used religion to lead peasants astray--or even that peasants led themselves astray because of religion--seems perfectly legitimate, and quite easily said without being dismissive. And without being so damn sloppy -- tell me again about how tarring all religion with the same brush is critical thinking?
The teacher's history is fine, but he reeks with contempt for Christians. You may support that contempt -- and in fact you may be so inured to it that it doesn't register as contempt -- but it's still out of place in a classroom.
Honestly, what I read about this teacher reminds me of my band teacher, who had a total cult of personality going on in our town. Parents and students alike worshiped him for years. Except that every year he picked out a few students that he disliked and mocked them mercilessly . Most other students and parents said this "built character" and was "constructive criticism." Indeed, his victims often agreed -- after all, he was practically a god in our school, so how could he be wrong?
That power dynamic is precisely why teachers ought not to score (cheap and easy) points with students though sarcasm and mockery.
I'm really unclear on why this teacher deserves to be so roundly defended. I'm an evolution-believing liberal -- does that mean I have to stick up for every jackass who feels the same?
Anyway, I promise not to take up more of your blog space on this! I read some blog that link to you, and I like to click around and see what else is out there, but I don't mean to be a nuisance!
Shaun, you aren't a nuisance and I am glad you dropped by. I enjoy reading other peoples points of view.
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